Lord Blackadder
Mar 23, 02:26 PM
That is totally reasonable and understandable, although I do disagree. I can't with good heart support sending my neighbors son/daughter overseas to fight for another people.
Well, we have allies, don't we? I simply consider the UN an attempt to permanently ally the world's nations to the extent that these sort of situations can be dealt with based on broader consensus. We are far from the ideal, but we must keep working towards it and an imperfect UN is better than no UN at all.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
I'm not going to defend Biden, he puts his foot in his mouth quite a bit - though he is FAR from the only politician in Washingotn with that problem. Besides, unlike Cheney, he is very much playing second fiddle in the administration (actually he's so far down the pecking order only fiddles when someone lends him one, if I can stretch that saying to the breaking point).
It is worth remembering that the Bush Administration sent that clown Bolton as our representative to the UN - a man who opposes that organization's very existence. Incredibly counterproductive. No, I expect hypocrisy from both Democrats and Republicans.
I think it all boils down to whether you buy into the notion that the UN is a global representative body. If you do, then sending troops to enforce UN resolutions is not just fighting for "other people" but fighting for ouselves. If member nations took the concept of the UN more seriously, UN resolutions alone might be enough to stabilize situations like this without the need for major military intervention.
Well, we have allies, don't we? I simply consider the UN an attempt to permanently ally the world's nations to the extent that these sort of situations can be dealt with based on broader consensus. We are far from the ideal, but we must keep working towards it and an imperfect UN is better than no UN at all.
I just find it pretty disgusting when we have the VP going on the record talking out his arse about "Unless we are attacked or unless there is proof we are about to be attacked", then a couple years later nary a peep when we start bombing a foreign country that is not even close to a threat to us. Did Biden qualify it with a " we should be able to intervene in a nation's affairs if it is thought necessary to either 1) protect other nations from harm or 2) protect a nation's own people from its government, or in the case of a civil war, one or more factions." NOPE!
I'm not going to defend Biden, he puts his foot in his mouth quite a bit - though he is FAR from the only politician in Washingotn with that problem. Besides, unlike Cheney, he is very much playing second fiddle in the administration (actually he's so far down the pecking order only fiddles when someone lends him one, if I can stretch that saying to the breaking point).
It is worth remembering that the Bush Administration sent that clown Bolton as our representative to the UN - a man who opposes that organization's very existence. Incredibly counterproductive. No, I expect hypocrisy from both Democrats and Republicans.
I think it all boils down to whether you buy into the notion that the UN is a global representative body. If you do, then sending troops to enforce UN resolutions is not just fighting for "other people" but fighting for ouselves. If member nations took the concept of the UN more seriously, UN resolutions alone might be enough to stabilize situations like this without the need for major military intervention.
afrowq
Apr 8, 11:05 PM
Everything depends on your work and needs right? For me...I'm short format and tweak every frame.
In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.
Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.
I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.
Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.
For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.
11thindian, do you still think it's only professionals that I know?
In terms of full disclosure I own FCP 4 suite and CS 5 master suite and own all the major Apple products (hardware and software). I also run Windows 7 in bootcamp.
Short format work is all about After Effects. Motion is 5 years behind and offers an incomplete feature set in comparison. After Effects marries up well with the tools from big 3d players, like Maxon and C4D. Its a great pipeline.
I'll watch with interest the announcements next week, but the release of an "iMovie Pro" won't interest me...and it seems like that's where Apple is headed. They now are fixated on Consumers Lite and Consumers Plus.
Apple is also doing everything to push me away from it's platform, with it's anti-Flash crusade, and it's complete inability to support Any (I mean ANY of the top 5-7) professional GPUs.
For the serious Pro Apple is living on borrowed time and the Steve Jobs reality-distortion field is weakening. Redmond is calling. Increasingly serious content professionals are listening. I never imagined these words coming from my mouth. But it's the truth.
11thindian, do you still think it's only professionals that I know?
PhantomPumpkin
Apr 25, 04:38 PM
Why should Location Services stop your phone from logging cell tower information, the same information your cell company logs?
Now if it's in Airplane Mode, then I'd wonder...
I don't think the "smart people" are all that smart if that's their issue!
The smart complainers rather. I don't think people would have the same issue if Apple collected X amount of data, and deleted it after X time. The issue is that it's stored forever, so people panic.
If it kept it for the same length as Android, and continued to NOT be sent to Apple, I don't see how this is any worse than any other phone's logging that occurs.
Apple doesn't receive data(as far as we know), 'Droid does. Yet Apple is the bad guy simply because it's unencrypted and not truncated. If they did those two fixes, anyone with any notion about the topic would be able to see that it's not a big deal.
Then again, how concerned are you that someone will know what cell phone towers you were near, or which Wi-Fi hot spots were around you on whatever day?
Now if it's in Airplane Mode, then I'd wonder...
I don't think the "smart people" are all that smart if that's their issue!
The smart complainers rather. I don't think people would have the same issue if Apple collected X amount of data, and deleted it after X time. The issue is that it's stored forever, so people panic.
If it kept it for the same length as Android, and continued to NOT be sent to Apple, I don't see how this is any worse than any other phone's logging that occurs.
Apple doesn't receive data(as far as we know), 'Droid does. Yet Apple is the bad guy simply because it's unencrypted and not truncated. If they did those two fixes, anyone with any notion about the topic would be able to see that it's not a big deal.
Then again, how concerned are you that someone will know what cell phone towers you were near, or which Wi-Fi hot spots were around you on whatever day?
RedTomato
Sep 13, 08:49 AM
Who knows, the hot setup may be a refurb'ed MacPro 2.0Ghz, then drop in better CPUs!
Damn, yes, that would be the ultimate future hot machine - a second hand or refurb Mac Pro 2ghz, - I reckon by October they will about �1200 second hand, then in the new year, down to about �800, get one, then pop in 2 x 4 cores.
Anyone know if the chipset will be pin-compatible with the next generation quad-cores?
Seems we are stuck as far as increasing MHZ goes, 3ghz seems to be near the realistic limit. Now we're just adding more and more cores in. How many cores will be the feasible limit?
After that, what will be the next method of radically increasing computing throughput?
Damn, yes, that would be the ultimate future hot machine - a second hand or refurb Mac Pro 2ghz, - I reckon by October they will about �1200 second hand, then in the new year, down to about �800, get one, then pop in 2 x 4 cores.
Anyone know if the chipset will be pin-compatible with the next generation quad-cores?
Seems we are stuck as far as increasing MHZ goes, 3ghz seems to be near the realistic limit. Now we're just adding more and more cores in. How many cores will be the feasible limit?
After that, what will be the next method of radically increasing computing throughput?
pdpfilms
Aug 11, 10:37 AM
"...Earlier than some may be expecting"??
Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?
Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?
p0intblank
Aug 16, 10:43 PM
Photoshop actually runs faster than I thought it would. :D
If only I could afford a Mac Pro... :(
If only I could afford a Mac Pro... :(
chatin
Aug 18, 08:13 PM
okay, it seems to be a RAM bottleneck. I had ordered a couple of 2 gig chips from apple cause I didn't mind paying the penalty now in order not to have to sell 1 gig'ers later on.
anyway, I'm on the phone now, getting standard RAM configuration, then I'm just going to to with OtherWorld's RAM.
I wish Apple had gotten their RAM supplies in order before they started shipping. Well, what can you do.
I purchased Kingston PC2 5300 FB for my Mac Pro from New Egg. They seemed to have the best price and some Mac friendly reviews.
My Pro now starts 10.4.7 in less than 5 seconds!
anyway, I'm on the phone now, getting standard RAM configuration, then I'm just going to to with OtherWorld's RAM.
I wish Apple had gotten their RAM supplies in order before they started shipping. Well, what can you do.
I purchased Kingston PC2 5300 FB for my Mac Pro from New Egg. They seemed to have the best price and some Mac friendly reviews.
My Pro now starts 10.4.7 in less than 5 seconds!
amin
Aug 18, 10:28 PM
Obviously, inherently the iMac design is inferior to the Mac Pro/Powermac.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
It may be obvious, but based on your earlier statement that a Conroe iMac would be "able to crunch through" apps faster than a Mac Pro, the obvious seemed worth identifying.
But I think there's a bigger reason why Apple chose to go all quad with the Mac Pro: Apple chose all quad because a duo option would have had the same performance in professional apps (again, excluding handbrake and toast which are the only two examples touted about). A single processor Woodcrest or Conroe option will have the same obtainable CPU power for 90-95% of the professional market for another 6-12 months at the very least.
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Here's some data regarding the Mac Pro's FSB:
*snip*
What can we take from this? Because of the use of FB-DIMMs, the Mac Pro's effective FSB is that of ~640MHz DDR2 system.
And how does it fare in memory latency?
*snip*
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
As for bandwidth, although the Mac Pro has a load of theoretical bandwidth, the efficiency is an abysmal 20%. In real use a DDR2 system has 72% more usable bandwidth. (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=11))
I don't know bout you, but if I were a heavy user of memory intensive apps such as Photoshop, I'd be worried. Worried in the sense that a Conroe would be noticeably faster.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Memory issues aside, Woodcrests are faster than Conroes, 2.4% on average (source here (http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=6))
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
princealfie
Nov 29, 09:16 AM
They aren't. The entire music business revenues are down 40% since 2001. Sales are down hugely. I can tell you from representing these artists that all the money is down too.
Are you spending as much on music as you did years ago?
Of course not. Most of the music sucks to be honest nowadays. I prefer the underground stuff from emusic, not big label stuff.
For example, Jay-Z's new album sucks compared to Reasonable Doubt.
The same with Nas nowadays compared to Illmatic.
The same with Mobb Deep.
etc. etc.
Get the picture? Artists who are hungry in the beginning put out a good album. Then they fall off the earth.
It's only the music industry that is losing quality. The only album this year that's from a major label that's any good this year is DJ Primo's production on Christina Aguilera's album and that's it period.
Sad, isn't it?
Are you spending as much on music as you did years ago?
Of course not. Most of the music sucks to be honest nowadays. I prefer the underground stuff from emusic, not big label stuff.
For example, Jay-Z's new album sucks compared to Reasonable Doubt.
The same with Nas nowadays compared to Illmatic.
The same with Mobb Deep.
etc. etc.
Get the picture? Artists who are hungry in the beginning put out a good album. Then they fall off the earth.
It's only the music industry that is losing quality. The only album this year that's from a major label that's any good this year is DJ Primo's production on Christina Aguilera's album and that's it period.
Sad, isn't it?
cjoy
Apr 25, 03:01 PM
Brings to mind:
If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.
statistics show that distribution of firearms mainly lead to more homocides and also suicides using firearms.
if guns are outlawed, their distribution is greatly limited, making it a lot harder for outlaws to obtain them.
the more you spread guns, the greater is the risk of them being used in illegal activities.
..oh wait... this forum is about apple and computers, right? :rolleyes:
If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.
statistics show that distribution of firearms mainly lead to more homocides and also suicides using firearms.
if guns are outlawed, their distribution is greatly limited, making it a lot harder for outlaws to obtain them.
the more you spread guns, the greater is the risk of them being used in illegal activities.
..oh wait... this forum is about apple and computers, right? :rolleyes:
DocNo
Apr 11, 10:06 AM
I still think tape cameras are the best in quality, but the practicality of recording on a card or a hard drive will soon beat that.
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 03:48 PM
I standby my assumption that the amount of internet usage is probably a good gauge of cell phone usage.
I am sure you are...
Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts".
My assumption (http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml). I was wrong. It is not 81%, it is 82%. Sorry, I will check my sources better next time.
I am sure you are...
Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts".
My assumption (http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml). I was wrong. It is not 81%, it is 82%. Sorry, I will check my sources better next time.
ezekielrage_99
Jul 27, 10:04 PM
This was one of the advantages of the G5 but IBM stalled and Intel has essentially blown past everybody. AMD will answer no doubt, but it appears that Intel has about a 6 month jump on them.
AMD has it's hands full with an ATi take over which gives Intel the chance to get a bit a head on the Processor game. Either way it's good Intel has some real competition it means faster cheaper chips.:cool:
AMD has it's hands full with an ATi take over which gives Intel the chance to get a bit a head on the Processor game. Either way it's good Intel has some real competition it means faster cheaper chips.:cool:
GQB
Mar 31, 05:10 PM
Good. I hope they take one of the last strengths of the iPad ecosystem away from it.
If you're going to spew nonsense, at least make it relevant to the thread.
If you're going to spew nonsense, at least make it relevant to the thread.
BaldiMac
Apr 19, 04:00 PM
I'm speaking about estimated Q1/11 to Q4/10 numbers (the est. Q1/11 numbers is what that news was about...). And what about reading the graphs I posted yourself? :rolleyes:
Well that's a pretty disingenuous comparison for a device on an annual release schedule. Year over year would be more appropriate.
I saw the table you posted. It doesn't prove what you said.
You said "Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now." Apple has increased their market share by more than 50% over the last two years.
Well that's a pretty disingenuous comparison for a device on an annual release schedule. Year over year would be more appropriate.
I saw the table you posted. It doesn't prove what you said.
You said "Apple is losing marketshare for over 2 years now." Apple has increased their market share by more than 50% over the last two years.
mlrproducts
Aug 11, 10:20 AM
Hurry up and take my money Apple! Here is my wishlist, the first section is PLAUSIBLE:
1) Released for GSM sim cards (probable, maybe support for CDMA later on)
2) Bluetooth (well, I think this is a given)
3) Good integration with iCal, Mail, etc
Now what I WANT that might not happen:
4) Not tied to a service provider
5) Affordable LOL
6) Wifi built in
7) Modem support for dialup over GSM
8) Lightweight, small FF
1) Released for GSM sim cards (probable, maybe support for CDMA later on)
2) Bluetooth (well, I think this is a given)
3) Good integration with iCal, Mail, etc
Now what I WANT that might not happen:
4) Not tied to a service provider
5) Affordable LOL
6) Wifi built in
7) Modem support for dialup over GSM
8) Lightweight, small FF
Neb154
Aug 7, 03:39 PM
I'm real excited for the new iChat and Spaces, along with these new "top secret features..." They better be good!
The finder is definately my bet for something to be revamped, along with probably iLife which will be revamped for leopard.
Edit : Also something more with virtualization (boot camp area) as they did not touch that really.
The finder is definately my bet for something to be revamped, along with probably iLife which will be revamped for leopard.
Edit : Also something more with virtualization (boot camp area) as they did not touch that really.
balamw
Aug 7, 04:36 PM
I'm not comparing it to system restore but to Volume Shadow Copy from Windows Server 2003. File-by-file snapshot by MS 3 years ago!
Again, fundamentally, a feature that existed in VMS over fifteen years ago and had been promised as part of Cairo. It took them over ten years to finally release it in Windows? :p
I'll have to ask my firendly IT guy, but how does the end user access shadow copies?
Exactly my thoughts!! Looks like a Trekie (how do you write that??) was let loose :D
Actually had a very Star Wars like feel to it with the angled text. Maybe one of the former Lucasfilm/ILM people from Pixar? :p
"A long time ago in a galaxy far away, a user created a file and overwrote its contents...."
B
Again, fundamentally, a feature that existed in VMS over fifteen years ago and had been promised as part of Cairo. It took them over ten years to finally release it in Windows? :p
I'll have to ask my firendly IT guy, but how does the end user access shadow copies?
Exactly my thoughts!! Looks like a Trekie (how do you write that??) was let loose :D
Actually had a very Star Wars like feel to it with the angled text. Maybe one of the former Lucasfilm/ILM people from Pixar? :p
"A long time ago in a galaxy far away, a user created a file and overwrote its contents...."
B
Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)
opinioncircle
Mar 19, 03:38 PM
When will you people realize that Obama is not in charge? You're not in charge either. Corporate interest rules the USA, Libya has 2% of the world's oil supply and a lot of companies have interests there. No one intervened militarily in Rwanda or East Timor. You guys can continue to have your little left vs right, conservative vs. liberal distraction of a debate, meanwhile the real people running the show don't give a rat's ass about any of it.
I do agree with you to a certain extent. I still feel there is room to make things happen, but the trio money/power/interests is the big factor in decisions made.
I am openly disappointed with President Obama. It seems he's chasing something that he can't have, i.e. appreciation from each and every American (left and right included).
He's gone soft on several issues, and instead of taking advantage of the position the Dems were in DC, they tried to find a false consensus. Sad is the only word coming to my mind when talking about President Obama 1st term.
I do agree with you to a certain extent. I still feel there is room to make things happen, but the trio money/power/interests is the big factor in decisions made.
I am openly disappointed with President Obama. It seems he's chasing something that he can't have, i.e. appreciation from each and every American (left and right included).
He's gone soft on several issues, and instead of taking advantage of the position the Dems were in DC, they tried to find a false consensus. Sad is the only word coming to my mind when talking about President Obama 1st term.
roland.g
Apr 25, 01:39 PM
Looking for an easy settlement. Not going to get it. Gold digging morons.
M87
Mar 26, 01:54 PM
Mt. Fuji. A hat tip to Japan.
The use of the Mt. Fuji desktop picture in Lion actually pre-dates the disaster in Japan. Just a very cool coincidence.
The use of the Mt. Fuji desktop picture in Lion actually pre-dates the disaster in Japan. Just a very cool coincidence.
dwd3885
Mar 31, 04:24 PM
what is this bash apple competitors day?
Denarius
Mar 22, 03:22 PM
A government in power is responding against a rebellion.
If a rebellion sprang up in the United States, our government would respond with force as well.
"Slaughtering his own people" sounds a little propogandish to me. Are you saying that Qaddafi is taking people who have no connection to the rebellion at all and slaughtering them?
How can any government meet armed internal rebellion without qualifying as "slaughtering their own people"?
It wasn't a rebellion when it first started, it was an unarmed march protesting against the number of people in Benghazi that had just disappeared in Benghazi over many years. They had some footage from the start of the protests on BBC's Panorama last night showing the march. Some guys in yellow builder's hats came in with a mixture of sticks and guns and started killing people at random, which is when it started escalating into a full-blown rebellion.
If a rebellion sprang up in the United States, our government would respond with force as well.
"Slaughtering his own people" sounds a little propogandish to me. Are you saying that Qaddafi is taking people who have no connection to the rebellion at all and slaughtering them?
How can any government meet armed internal rebellion without qualifying as "slaughtering their own people"?
It wasn't a rebellion when it first started, it was an unarmed march protesting against the number of people in Benghazi that had just disappeared in Benghazi over many years. They had some footage from the start of the protests on BBC's Panorama last night showing the march. Some guys in yellow builder's hats came in with a mixture of sticks and guns and started killing people at random, which is when it started escalating into a full-blown rebellion.
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