Rt&Dzine
Apr 28, 06:33 PM
That is a good point... I was "lumped" in as a liberal and I don't consider myself one. I am more moderate. Live and let live kind of guy...
I'm a mixture. Liberal, moderate, and conservative.
I'm a mixture. Liberal, moderate, and conservative.
the vj
Apr 6, 02:53 PM
I remember when I was a kid and I asked my father for a toy and he came with a different one... I was the saddest kid on earth.
I believe that who ever asked for an iPad and got a Motorola would feel the same.
(Dad, I love you)
I believe that who ever asked for an iPad and got a Motorola would feel the same.
(Dad, I love you)
Cheffy Dave
Apr 6, 11:31 AM
ULV CPUs (17W) will go to 11.6". The TDP of 320M is not known but 9400M has TDP of 12W so it is quite safe to assume that the TDP is similar to that. That means current 11.6" MBA has TDP of 22W (includes CPU, GPU, chipset) while SB 11.6" MBA would have a TDP of 21W (17W for the CPU and ~4W for the PCH).
13" will go with LV CPUs (25W). Again, currently it has 17W for the CPU and 12W for 320M. That's 29W. 25W CPU and ~4W for PCH gives you the same 29W.
11.6" - Core i5-2537M (option for Core i7-2657M)
13.3" - Core i7-2629M (option for Core i7-2649M)
Thanks HH for those stats!:cool:
13" will go with LV CPUs (25W). Again, currently it has 17W for the CPU and 12W for 320M. That's 29W. 25W CPU and ~4W for PCH gives you the same 29W.
11.6" - Core i5-2537M (option for Core i7-2657M)
13.3" - Core i7-2629M (option for Core i7-2649M)
Thanks HH for those stats!:cool:
Squire
Jul 14, 08:50 PM
Macs have ALREADY had two optical bays (including twin CD drives). And none of these configs include two drives, you'd only have a second one if you wanted it.
*bold added
Where have you been shopping recently? Only one model PowerMac has ever had two optical drive bay.
The MDD G4 PowerMac towers (August 2002-June 2004) have two optical drive bays. The G4 PowerMacs that came before only have one (the lower bay is only big enough for floppy-size devices, like zip drives.) The G5 PowerMacs only have one externally-accessible bay of any size.
I would love the ability to install two optical drives, but your claim that Apple is currently shipping this somewhere is simply not true.
I think a brush-up lesson on the present perfect tense is in order. :D
Case designers aren't perfect, but they aren't idiots either. Some PCs have power supplies on top, despite the top heaviness and the extra path for the power cable. What's the reason? There must be some tradeoff involved or they'd never build them that way.
Good point. I just realized that my PC case has its power supply on the top. It's just a cheap-o case and it has never fallen over. I've never noticed any top-heaviness, as a matter of fact. In addition, the positioning of the cord hasn't caused any problems. In fact, it might actually be a better position for me-- while there is clutter on both sides of the box, there's nothing on top, making it easy to unplug.
-Squire
P.S. greenstork, where did your 'tar go? It's always been one of my favorites.
*bold added
Where have you been shopping recently? Only one model PowerMac has ever had two optical drive bay.
The MDD G4 PowerMac towers (August 2002-June 2004) have two optical drive bays. The G4 PowerMacs that came before only have one (the lower bay is only big enough for floppy-size devices, like zip drives.) The G5 PowerMacs only have one externally-accessible bay of any size.
I would love the ability to install two optical drives, but your claim that Apple is currently shipping this somewhere is simply not true.
I think a brush-up lesson on the present perfect tense is in order. :D
Case designers aren't perfect, but they aren't idiots either. Some PCs have power supplies on top, despite the top heaviness and the extra path for the power cable. What's the reason? There must be some tradeoff involved or they'd never build them that way.
Good point. I just realized that my PC case has its power supply on the top. It's just a cheap-o case and it has never fallen over. I've never noticed any top-heaviness, as a matter of fact. In addition, the positioning of the cord hasn't caused any problems. In fact, it might actually be a better position for me-- while there is clutter on both sides of the box, there's nothing on top, making it easy to unplug.
-Squire
P.S. greenstork, where did your 'tar go? It's always been one of my favorites.
mc68k
Dec 9, 01:06 AM
well turns out you win the delorean s2 in part of the game. so much for that epic purchase :(
one cool thing about this game is since im in front of screen a lot ive been listening to some good new music while playing. been getting back in the old zone. a lot of the old tracks are coming back to me. i can hit a lot of the corners from memory
the required oil change for all used cars sucks. i put in the code for my free car from pre order. got the nascar and the mclaren stealth. that car is even better than my fully tricked out F40! i tried it on a practice track and it felt much smoother.i almost feel liek its cheating with the SS racing tires. oh well it's still fun and if you miss a corner badly it's still your fault and you lose, so theres till some challenge there.
edit: looks like i cant sell the delorean. anyone want to trade?
one cool thing about this game is since im in front of screen a lot ive been listening to some good new music while playing. been getting back in the old zone. a lot of the old tracks are coming back to me. i can hit a lot of the corners from memory
the required oil change for all used cars sucks. i put in the code for my free car from pre order. got the nascar and the mclaren stealth. that car is even better than my fully tricked out F40! i tried it on a practice track and it felt much smoother.i almost feel liek its cheating with the SS racing tires. oh well it's still fun and if you miss a corner badly it's still your fault and you lose, so theres till some challenge there.
edit: looks like i cant sell the delorean. anyone want to trade?
Tomaz
Aug 7, 05:34 PM
Time Machine won't mean much when the HD fails. Back that azz up!
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
Also a very good point, so I need a bigger main HD for my MacBookPro (the new Seagate 160GB becomes interesting) for Time Machine, but i still need to back the hole thing up to an external HD in case of a HD crash (I had 2 in the last 8 months!). So Tine Machine doesn't make Backups obsolete, I didn't even think of that up to now. Hmmm..
Virtualball
Apr 19, 02:32 PM
It appears from the F700's standpoint though the natural progression became TouchWiz.
Wrong. Just because a company released one phone that has a similar look as the iPhone doesn't mean their current offerings are a progression of that phone. It's a true testament as to who browses this forum if you honestly think that. The F700 didn't run an advanced OS, so it probably ran Symbian or used BREW. That means all Samsung did was create a theme. How does a theme they made 3 years prior to the Galaxy S mean it's a progression on the coding and UI they built? It doesn't. Here's a list of every Samsung phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Samsung_mobile_phones Now, pick out one of those and say it inspired all of their new devices 3 years later.
The F700 was an iPhone clone with a keyboard. It's depressing that people are saying that the iPhone copied its own clone.
Wrong. Just because a company released one phone that has a similar look as the iPhone doesn't mean their current offerings are a progression of that phone. It's a true testament as to who browses this forum if you honestly think that. The F700 didn't run an advanced OS, so it probably ran Symbian or used BREW. That means all Samsung did was create a theme. How does a theme they made 3 years prior to the Galaxy S mean it's a progression on the coding and UI they built? It doesn't. Here's a list of every Samsung phone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Samsung_mobile_phones Now, pick out one of those and say it inspired all of their new devices 3 years later.
The F700 was an iPhone clone with a keyboard. It's depressing that people are saying that the iPhone copied its own clone.
sparkleytone
Mar 26, 08:42 AM
The first time this thought crossed my mind was when I first used WriteRoom, to write a paper. Many seem to think (and Apple has intimated as much) that Full Screen Apps originated from iOS. I think this is wrong. I think Apple first thought about these with WriteRoom, which is why Pages was the first App to get the Full Screen treatment.
Combining it with the new form of spaces is a genius move though.
The idea has definitely been around for a while, but it�s the details of the *implementation* that make it so refreshing. I love and use Spaces, but as it stands in SL it�s just not a feature for every user. Mission Control + Full-screen apps very much is.
Yet another unimpressive "major" update to an O/S that's showing it's age and irrelevance.
Yet another complaint post that shows its originator�s lack of knowledge regarding the subject being commented on.
Compared to the iDevice world, the computer side of Apple has ground to a halt.
Just�false.
Enough!! Combine MacOS and iOS already!!! The transition is so painfully slow, would someone else in tech get off their lazy ass and prod these guys to move a LITTLE quicker?!?
How is this possibly a good idea? Their shells are completely different because they�re targeted at completely different UI paradigms. The underpinnings are generally comparable already, but to argue that they need to be merged is just asinine.
Combining it with the new form of spaces is a genius move though.
The idea has definitely been around for a while, but it�s the details of the *implementation* that make it so refreshing. I love and use Spaces, but as it stands in SL it�s just not a feature for every user. Mission Control + Full-screen apps very much is.
Yet another unimpressive "major" update to an O/S that's showing it's age and irrelevance.
Yet another complaint post that shows its originator�s lack of knowledge regarding the subject being commented on.
Compared to the iDevice world, the computer side of Apple has ground to a halt.
Just�false.
Enough!! Combine MacOS and iOS already!!! The transition is so painfully slow, would someone else in tech get off their lazy ass and prod these guys to move a LITTLE quicker?!?
How is this possibly a good idea? Their shells are completely different because they�re targeted at completely different UI paradigms. The underpinnings are generally comparable already, but to argue that they need to be merged is just asinine.
Peace
Aug 5, 05:15 PM
No MacRumors IRC channel?
http://www.macrumorslive.com/irc/login/
http://www.macrumorslive.com/irc/login/
epitaphic
Aug 17, 12:54 PM
The interesting thing to note from the Anandtech review is that to saturate a 2 core setup, all you need is one program. To saturate a quad, you need to be doing a bit more at the same time. To saturate an octo, you need to be doing a hell of a lot of things at the same time.
Now I don't know bout you lot, but there's only so much I can do at the same time. Sure it helps to be able to run anything I like and still use FCP with no performance hit. So I think a quad is perfect for that. But when it comes to 8+ cores, your actual workflow won't improve in the slightest unless it doesn't involve you having to do anything (eg run 4 instances of handbrake). I'm sure everyone once in a while has some work that can just be delegated to the CPU and it does its thing, but for the most part, where your attention and brain is needed, an 8 core will sit at least 50% idle.
Considering Clovertowns will have a slower, twice saturated FSB and lower clock speeds, most people will be better off (financially and productively) with Woodcrests. I'm just hoping that when octos are announced, the quads will drop in price.
Now if they start to optimise apps to take full advantage of more than 2 cores, that's a whole different ballgame ;)
Now I don't know bout you lot, but there's only so much I can do at the same time. Sure it helps to be able to run anything I like and still use FCP with no performance hit. So I think a quad is perfect for that. But when it comes to 8+ cores, your actual workflow won't improve in the slightest unless it doesn't involve you having to do anything (eg run 4 instances of handbrake). I'm sure everyone once in a while has some work that can just be delegated to the CPU and it does its thing, but for the most part, where your attention and brain is needed, an 8 core will sit at least 50% idle.
Considering Clovertowns will have a slower, twice saturated FSB and lower clock speeds, most people will be better off (financially and productively) with Woodcrests. I'm just hoping that when octos are announced, the quads will drop in price.
Now if they start to optimise apps to take full advantage of more than 2 cores, that's a whole different ballgame ;)
bigmc6000
Jul 27, 09:59 AM
"...Core 2 Duo chips need less electricity, drawing just 65 watts compared to the Pentium 4’s 95 watts and Pentium D’s 130 watts"
Good Lord - does anybody know what the G5 is? I'd imagine that the elaborate cooling system in the current G5 towers probably won't be needed it it's running anything like the D's...
And about the WWDC, I think it is possible for Merom laptops, Core 2 iMacs, Leopard Preview, Mac Pro's and possibly Movie service. However, I think the movie thing could be replaced by a larger capacity nano but that's about it. Only 1, at most, iTunes/iPod announcement with all the Mac stuff that should be addressed.
Good Lord - does anybody know what the G5 is? I'd imagine that the elaborate cooling system in the current G5 towers probably won't be needed it it's running anything like the D's...
And about the WWDC, I think it is possible for Merom laptops, Core 2 iMacs, Leopard Preview, Mac Pro's and possibly Movie service. However, I think the movie thing could be replaced by a larger capacity nano but that's about it. Only 1, at most, iTunes/iPod announcement with all the Mac stuff that should be addressed.
KnightWRX
Apr 20, 11:35 AM
I pointed out the Grid layout many times in the other thread and was told that wasn't part of the lawsuit. If it is than Apple isn't just stretching... they are being idiotic.
According to the analysis, it is in the suit, as part of the trade dress claims.
According to the analysis, it is in the suit, as part of the trade dress claims.
myemosoul
Jun 14, 07:25 PM
I'm in the same exact boat Ronbo. I live in NJ too by the way.
I traded my 16GB 3GS to Radio Shack on 6/9 for a 184 dollar credit to use on iPhone4 and i got a call from the store manager an hour and a half ago telling me that they're not allowed to take pre-orders but i can come tomorrow at 1pm and get a pin number that DOESN'T even guarantee me a phone on the 24th?
I'm probably going to pre-order on apple's website tomorrow and spend my 184 dollar credit on a vcr/dvd recorder combo instead.
UGH, i knew i shouldn't have done this, and the icing on the cake is that I have to use my Razr V3 until the 24th which is killing me, and all for nothing.
I traded my 16GB 3GS to Radio Shack on 6/9 for a 184 dollar credit to use on iPhone4 and i got a call from the store manager an hour and a half ago telling me that they're not allowed to take pre-orders but i can come tomorrow at 1pm and get a pin number that DOESN'T even guarantee me a phone on the 24th?
I'm probably going to pre-order on apple's website tomorrow and spend my 184 dollar credit on a vcr/dvd recorder combo instead.
UGH, i knew i shouldn't have done this, and the icing on the cake is that I have to use my Razr V3 until the 24th which is killing me, and all for nothing.
Cachiro
Apr 6, 04:42 PM
Don't understand that there needs to be a pissing contest about Xoom OR ipad.
Why are the Xoom guys even here on a Mac site, to tell us THEIR device is better?
I'm with you 100%
Why are the Xoom guys even here on a Mac site, to tell us THEIR device is better?
I'm with you 100%
Thex1138
Apr 19, 07:37 PM
It's a Samsung Galaxy Tab.
Ridiculous nit-picking. http://kr.engadget.com/tag/samsung+galaxy+tab/ it's in Korean, but I'm sure you get the idea.
@kdarling: look up.. up... 4 posts up.. There you go.
I saw that too.. a chick in our office loves her GaxTab... but that's a definite iBooks cloner...
I also had to joke about her reason for buying it,.... to back up her PC files and transport them from office to home n vice-versa... ;)
Ridiculous nit-picking. http://kr.engadget.com/tag/samsung+galaxy+tab/ it's in Korean, but I'm sure you get the idea.
@kdarling: look up.. up... 4 posts up.. There you go.
I saw that too.. a chick in our office loves her GaxTab... but that's a definite iBooks cloner...
I also had to joke about her reason for buying it,.... to back up her PC files and transport them from office to home n vice-versa... ;)
jvmxtra
Apr 6, 04:04 PM
Wow. All the hype and pent up anti-Apple demand and all they could muster was 100K units. Very poor. Where are the other Android tablets?
As for the RIM Playbook, that **** is DOA.
WebOS will be way to late to the game but HP has huge retail distribution.
I think Apple has won this one.
can't stop staring at your icon pic.. NICE!!!! :eek:
As for the RIM Playbook, that **** is DOA.
WebOS will be way to late to the game but HP has huge retail distribution.
I think Apple has won this one.
can't stop staring at your icon pic.. NICE!!!! :eek:
cmaier
Apr 20, 02:52 PM
Apple filed similar suits again HTC and Nokia last spring. You'll notice that the ITC is not favoring Apple's claims.
The suits aren't very similar at all.
The suits aren't very similar at all.
gnasher729
Aug 17, 09:17 AM
Edit: Please ignore this post, I can't count!!!
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
crpchristian
Apr 6, 12:29 PM
Motion is the program I would like to see take a big step forward. I am also a heavy Adobe user and have the entire CS5 Production bundle...but NOT for Premier...I solely use PhotoShop and After Effects. AE has been my go to animated title compositor. Motion, while decent...is certainly behind the eight ball in comparison to Avid and AE for these tasks.
I agree with this, I feel like motion is not really fulfilling it's potential, especially after the acquisition of shake. I do really like Motion, it's great in it's intuitive and straightforward approach, I feel like it's really fast for putting together certain projects. For higher end compositing projects or for just complex scenes in general I feel like there could be more powerful tools and the speed can just go down too fast when things start to get a little complex.
I'd love to see Blu Ray support for DVD Studio Pro, I don't feel like it's necessary but Blu Ray, I feel, is easily relevant enough to justify it's implementation.
I'd also LOVE to see some things tweaked with bugs and performance with Soundtrack Pro. I think the program is fantastic in many ways but once a project gets to a certain level of complexity / size it can be game over. Not just crashes but bugs that actually destroy work and can render a project unusable. You can just segment projects, which is fine, but it'd be a really nice work flow bonus to not have to do that.
I agree with this, I feel like motion is not really fulfilling it's potential, especially after the acquisition of shake. I do really like Motion, it's great in it's intuitive and straightforward approach, I feel like it's really fast for putting together certain projects. For higher end compositing projects or for just complex scenes in general I feel like there could be more powerful tools and the speed can just go down too fast when things start to get a little complex.
I'd love to see Blu Ray support for DVD Studio Pro, I don't feel like it's necessary but Blu Ray, I feel, is easily relevant enough to justify it's implementation.
I'd also LOVE to see some things tweaked with bugs and performance with Soundtrack Pro. I think the program is fantastic in many ways but once a project gets to a certain level of complexity / size it can be game over. Not just crashes but bugs that actually destroy work and can render a project unusable. You can just segment projects, which is fine, but it'd be a really nice work flow bonus to not have to do that.
leekohler
Apr 27, 11:49 AM
Who is NOBama? I looked up that name on Wikipedia but haven't found anything.
I was wondering the same thing.
I was wondering the same thing.
gallinger
Sep 13, 10:27 AM
does anyone know how much the clovertown chips are going to be?
pherplexed
Jul 27, 10:11 AM
wasn't this announced last friday? (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060721145043.shtml)
SevenInchScrew
Aug 12, 11:00 PM
but you do care. you are pointing out that you care by what you just typed. if you count the prologues, you get over 57M sold.
You originally said...
so either way, there's only 4 versions of the game out. at over 57 million copies sold, i'd say they sold a fair few.
...which as I've said, a few times now, is incorrect. If you only count 4 games, as you originally said in that quote, that only totals 46M. And besides, if you check that link I originally provided, which is FROM POLYPHONY THEMSELVES, you would see that the total worldwide is only 56M. At least if you're going to quote the number in the wrong context, use the right number.
i disagree. let's bring math into the equation, since you seem to have missed it.
100,000,000/15 = 6,666,667.
57,000,000/8 = 7,125,000.
so GT has sold more copies per game.
Yay, let's play the "Twist The Numbers To Fit Our Needs" game....
100M / 15 years = 6.66M per year (Need for Speed)
56M / 13 years = 4.31M per year (Gran Turismo)
So yea, Need for Speed sells 50% more per year. YAY, math is fun!!!
well again this is your opinion...
It is. I don't like the direction Polyphony has taken the game. A game that used to be my favorite game. It disappoints me. Thus my frustration. I bought my PS3 with the hopes
but the intention of the car was for the game. how do you not see that? specifically for the game. in fact, it's named GT after the game
Can I buy one and drive it to work? No? Then it isn't real, intentions or not.
how does sales have no relevance if something is great?
Then according to you, Wii Play is the "greatest" video game of all time. Just reading that sentence should show you exactly why sales have very little to do with the quality of a game.
I keep saying this, but it seems people don't really understand it. Sales, which deal with numbers, are an objective measure of something. Greatness, which deals with personal preferences, is a subjective measure. You can think GT, or the iPhone, or Star Wars, or whatever, is great. That is fine, and a personal opinion. But, the sales of those things can't be "great". They can be large, and they are, but they can't be great.
And really, if someone uses the sales of something to qualify the greatness of it to themselves, that is kind of sad. Quite a few of my favorite things, which I consider great, didn't sell very well. That doesn't make them any less great to me.
But anyway, I don't even know why I'm arguing about this. I'm not even going to be buying this game. I'm done with this thread now. I'll just tip my hat, and bid you adieu.
You originally said...
so either way, there's only 4 versions of the game out. at over 57 million copies sold, i'd say they sold a fair few.
...which as I've said, a few times now, is incorrect. If you only count 4 games, as you originally said in that quote, that only totals 46M. And besides, if you check that link I originally provided, which is FROM POLYPHONY THEMSELVES, you would see that the total worldwide is only 56M. At least if you're going to quote the number in the wrong context, use the right number.
i disagree. let's bring math into the equation, since you seem to have missed it.
100,000,000/15 = 6,666,667.
57,000,000/8 = 7,125,000.
so GT has sold more copies per game.
Yay, let's play the "Twist The Numbers To Fit Our Needs" game....
100M / 15 years = 6.66M per year (Need for Speed)
56M / 13 years = 4.31M per year (Gran Turismo)
So yea, Need for Speed sells 50% more per year. YAY, math is fun!!!
well again this is your opinion...
It is. I don't like the direction Polyphony has taken the game. A game that used to be my favorite game. It disappoints me. Thus my frustration. I bought my PS3 with the hopes
but the intention of the car was for the game. how do you not see that? specifically for the game. in fact, it's named GT after the game
Can I buy one and drive it to work? No? Then it isn't real, intentions or not.
how does sales have no relevance if something is great?
Then according to you, Wii Play is the "greatest" video game of all time. Just reading that sentence should show you exactly why sales have very little to do with the quality of a game.
I keep saying this, but it seems people don't really understand it. Sales, which deal with numbers, are an objective measure of something. Greatness, which deals with personal preferences, is a subjective measure. You can think GT, or the iPhone, or Star Wars, or whatever, is great. That is fine, and a personal opinion. But, the sales of those things can't be "great". They can be large, and they are, but they can't be great.
And really, if someone uses the sales of something to qualify the greatness of it to themselves, that is kind of sad. Quite a few of my favorite things, which I consider great, didn't sell very well. That doesn't make them any less great to me.
But anyway, I don't even know why I'm arguing about this. I'm not even going to be buying this game. I'm done with this thread now. I'll just tip my hat, and bid you adieu.
leekohler
Apr 27, 10:35 AM
Oh for fraks sake (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/obamas-long-form-birth-certificate-released/?hp)
On one hand I think releasing the full certificate should not have happened as the dumb ass in the quote above is trying to take credit for forcing the release and only stupid, crazy, and racist people were asking birther questions. And now they all look sane and can claim sanity.
But, now that this long form certificate is out the President can say "Here is what you wanted and now can we move on with business" and if the birthers still question the certificate the President can show, point and claim that it was settled long ago.
The birthers won't be satisfied. They're mentally ill people who believe what they believe and no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.
On one hand I think releasing the full certificate should not have happened as the dumb ass in the quote above is trying to take credit for forcing the release and only stupid, crazy, and racist people were asking birther questions. And now they all look sane and can claim sanity.
But, now that this long form certificate is out the President can say "Here is what you wanted and now can we move on with business" and if the birthers still question the certificate the President can show, point and claim that it was settled long ago.
The birthers won't be satisfied. They're mentally ill people who believe what they believe and no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.
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